Schuyler Barbeau Part 2: In His Own Words
by Gary Hunt
June 7, 2016
Schuyler Barbeau was arrested in a setup, participated in by his best friend, Oliver Murphy, on December 6, 2015. Until just a few days ago, what happened to Schuyler was unknown, except that he ended up in jail. The only story that could be told, at that time, was from Allen Aenk, who was present in the car when the minions of government, in complete battle dress, descended on the two of them. What Allen Aenk was able to observe is described in The Arrest of Schuyler Barbeau.
Schuyler has now come forward with his description of the events of that day, including a transcription of the interrogation that was conducted prior to him being finally settled in the King County Jail.
The following account is transcribed from a handwritten report by Schuyler. The interrogation dialogue was copied from a copy provide to Schuyler by the government, as part of Discovery. That transcript was redacted with “XXXXX” in place of a name. However, the name is placed, in context, as the informant working with the FBI is known as a result of our previous investigation, and is used in place of the “XXXXX”. Schuyler’s comments with regard to the interrogation dialogue are included (in parenthesis).
[Note: I have been informed, through friends of Schuyler Barbeau, that this was not a transcription, rather, a recollection of the interview. I, foolishly, assumed that since he had used the “XXXXX” in places that it was transcribed (copied). I have been advised that in keeping in compliance with the Court’s effort to make public only what they want to be public, Schuyler used the “XXXXX” to avoid violating the Court’s prohibition on divulging Discovery information. 6/24/16 gh]
Allen and I were pulling off Highway 18 where it intersects Interstate 90 to enter the non-operational weigh-station. As we rolled through the long parking lot, I spotted my best friend, Oliver Murphy’s, Ford Explorer, sitting by the small weigh-station building. The hood was up as Oliver had told me that the car was overheating. Now, the purpose of my meeting him was to pick up cash for a sale he did for me. As we approached, I said aloud, “Well, there is his SUV, but I don’t see him.” We parked next to the Explorer and as we did, I took notice of the stickers all over the rear and window, confirming in my mind that this was in fact the right vehicle, because I recognized the stickers, even the pro-2nd Amendment one.
I stepped out of the car, grabbed the dog’s [Note: a dog that had just been picked up by TeamRescue for training – opf] leash and waited for it to climb out of the backseat into the front seat and then out of the car. Just then, as she jumped out, I heard a whole bunch of shouting to my 11 o’clock position. I looked up and over the top of the hood of the Explorer (which they closed as they came around) and saw the military (it actually turned out just to be the FBI) come pouring out of the building and around the Explorer with their pistols and M4s pointed at my face. Now, there was no difference in dress and appearance between these guys (FBI) and some Delta Force operators from the Army. About 15 to 20 agents total. They had their multi-cam clothing, full kit, plate carrier, body armor, and helmets, along with other gear. “Operators” are carrying, and using all their high-speed weapons. This overwhelming display of “tactic-cool” is a true testament of the militarization of law enforcement.
I am not impressed; watch the footage of all the law enforcement people walking around after the San Bernardino shooting, Boston Marathon bombing, Ferguson, Missouri, riots, and see what I’m talking about. I’m not comfortable with it. I heard someone yell to drop the leash. I thought, no, not going to do that — If I let the dog go he can run off or whatever. I’m definitely not going to place the dog into a position to have her safety in the hands of these punks. Law enforcement has a really stellar reputation of shooting people’s animals. I don’t trust them not to shoot her.
I didn’t drop the leash, instead with the loop around my wrists, I put my hands up, and leaned forward against the roof of the car. I was very calm this whole time. I naturally stay calm during high stress and the Marine Corps helped me get better at it.
The agents formed a semi circle around me and the car. They put Allen on his knees, cuffed him, took off somewhere where I couldn’t see him. All the agents were shouting at the same time when they came out of the building at me, so I ignored them. I suppose it’s part of their tactics to overwhelm and surprise their “enemy combatants” they’re taking down. More military tactics carried over to law enforcement, but that stuff doesn’t work on someone like me. I’m trained to remain calm under fire and to be able to process information and function under stress. Do you understand why the government fears veterans more than any other threat to the United States, more than any terrorist organizations, even?
So I wait for one of the morons to give me some kind of instruction. Finally, someone speaks up, but first I want to mention that I instantly recognized that I was outnumbered – even by a Marine standards – and outgunned, as well as the whole of the situation, and I believe Providence was involved in all the events that day, cockiness aside, because I had 16 rounds of .45 ACP in my pistol.
Anyway, one of the agents in civilian attire shouted out to me that he was FBI and said, “go ahead and put the dog back in the car”. I did so and closed the door. He said, put your hands up behind your head and walked backwards towards the officers who were at the rear of the car. They said stop, removed my gun from its holster, and my knife. Then they did a pat-down and then he said, “okay, put one hand down behind your back at a time, nice and easy”. I did so. It was kind of weird because they were so gentle with me. I’ve always imagined/expected to be tackled, tazed, beaten, and shot, if I were arrested. I guess they were too scared to do anything like that to me.
They took me over to the building, put me against the wall, then searched me again, and then sat me down. They searched my boots. Still, I was calm, but very irritated that this was happening. I noticed that people driving by on the interstate were honking and waving as they went by. I never looked at any agents in the eyes the whole time, they have no honor in violating my rights like they were. I knew long ago that my rifle was going to cause grief for me one day. Everyone tried to persuade me that building that rifle and toting it around so openly was kind of a bad idea. But somebody has to show by example how not to be scared of the government’s tyrants. I practice what I preached about the Second Amendment. You are either support it, or you don’t.
Before they moved me to one of their SUVs, they searched me again. I was asked if I had a handcuff key on me. I said no and that I had ordered some while I lived with Oliver, but I never got them. I’ve since discovered that Oliver received my package, and kept it from me, sometime after I moved out. I asked him every once in a while and he lied saying that they never came. He turned my keys over to the FBI.
I asked one agent if Oliver got to watch my arrests, since I was supposed to be meeting him. I figured he was watching from somewhere. The agent said he didn’t know who I was talking about.
They put me in the SUV and took me to the Snoqualmie Police Station, took me into a room and sat me down. Special Agent Bennett and some detectives from Seattle Port Authority (I’m guessing homeland security) wanted to ask some questions. The first thing said, by Bennett, was “well, we’re here today, basically because you became a threat”. The truth is, I was there because the government has become the threat to American Freedom and Liberty and all I do is defend myself and others from this threat. I just do what’s right and uphold my oath to the Constitution. They asked, if they took the handcuffs off, would I cause any problems. I said, “well, you already took my means of self-defense away, so I can’t do anything now”. They didn’t like that and sternly talked over me so that I don’t remember what they said. I was given a paper to sign – my Miranda advisement of rights form. I asked some questions about it, told them I didn’t need an attorney present because I would be representing myself. We also made a deal if I answered some of their questions, they would answer some of mine. So he pulled out a voice recorder we began.
The agents introduce themselves with date, time, location, ask if they can record, I say yes. Agent confirms my rights, that I signed it voluntarily.
Agent: Okay, is this your firearm (showing me a picture)?
Agent: That’s not your firearm?
Me: Well, that depends on your definition of “firearm”. (Agents roll their eyes)
Agent: All right, does this rifle belong to you?
Me: Well, it’s is a rifle and it is mine, so, yes.
Agent: Yes. Where did you get it?
Me: I ordered all the parts off of the Internet and some were brought over the counter at retail, or whatever businesses.
Agent: Like do you remember the business?
Me: I bought some things from Rainier Arms (FBI has all my receipts so it doesn’t matter).
Agent: Okay, where did you get the barrel?
Me: Rainier Arms.
Agent: both barrels, the long and the short?
Me: The short one was from Rainier Arms, the long one was from a different company, from their website.
Agent: okay, and how long is a short barrel, in inches?
Me: That barrel is 10 1/2.
Agent: Okay, do you have a tax stamp for that short barrel?
Agent: But you do own a suppressor for your pistol, is that correct?
Agent: And you do have a tax stamp for that?
Agent: Why did you not get a tax stamp for the short barrel?
Me: Because I have not found a law that says I need to.
Agent: And the lower on the rifle is an 80% lower, commonly known as an 80% lower, is that correct?
Agent: And what does 80% lower mean?
Me: The ATF… according to the ATF, on their website, the last time I read it, states that the 80% lower receiver is not considered a firearm because it is unfinished, because it requires advanced machine skills to complete the manufacturing process. They have no regulation for it.
Agent: Are you allowed to transfer it to anyone else?
Me: You cannot transfer to anyone else, because it is not a firearm, per the BATF website. (Just so you know, the reason I said that is because “transfer” is a term used in commerce. Congress only has power to regulate guns through the interstate “commerce clause”. I only engaged in private activity, the government has no authority because of the 2nd Amendment. When you “transfer” a firearm, what are you transferring? – The legal ownership, something that you have to ask permission for. I’m not asking for permission to own something I have a right to make and own.)
Agent: You said you cannot transfer it to, cannot transfer it to anyone else?
Agent: Okay, and did you transfer it to someone else?
Agent: you didn’t give it to Mr. Murphy to sell for you?
Me: I did not transfer by the legal definition of the word “transfer”. I did not “transfer” it.
Agent: Okay, what did you do? How would you describe the transaction (Another term used in commerce, the is trying to show jurisdiction, but I know better, you’ll see later during trial) with the rifle to Mr. Murphy?
Me: I took it to his house and left it at this house.
Agent: And he was there?
Agent: And he accepted it?
Agent: Okay, and why did you leave it at this house?
Me: Because I wanted him to sell it to someone for me because I was not able to contact that person because I was currently staying in someone’s, a friend’s, house on the other side of the state.
Agent: Okay, and you wanted him to sell it for how much?
Me: Five thousand.
Agent: Okay, and did he in fact do that?
Me: I don’t know.
Agent: Was it your understanding before you are arrested that he had sold it?
Me: It was my understanding, based on whoever told me, that he had done it, but I had no proof that it had happened.
Agent: Did Mr. Murphy ever tell you that he had money for you?
Me: He said he was getting it, he never said he had it. (I knew at this time everything was botched. I know my best friend had set me up. I had a small suspicion for a long time that there was something off about him, but I dismissed it because I didn’t want to live paranoid.)
Agent: Okay, so, we spoke a little bit earlier, ah, under the public safety exception to Miranda about you knowing whether any explosives or IED’s at the Aenk’s residence in Springdale, Washington, and you told me there weren’t. I’ll ask again, um, through the Miranda, are you in possession of any blasting caps or detonation cord?
Agent: Do you have any blasting caps or detonation cord at the Aenk’s residence in Springdale, Washington?
Agent: Were you ever in possession of such items?
Me: When I was in the military, all the time.
Agent: In the last 60 days were you in possession…
Agent: Let me finish, in the last 60 days were you in possession of blasting caps or detonation cord?
Agent: You didn’t retrieve blasting caps and detonation cord from a rural road outside of Monroe, Washington? (Now, something has been removed from recording and transcript because he asked me about getting something off of railroad tracks. I was confused, but I will continue.)
Agent: What did you retrieve that night?
Me: I’m not sure what that you’re talking about. (This is where I’m confused.)
Agent: After you met Mr. Murphy, along with Carrie at the Ixtapa Restaurant in Monroe, you went to. I can’t recall the name of the road, but you parked under the power lines.
Me: That was a retrieval of something with a bag, like a, it’s made out of Cordura. It’s made by Blackhawk, and has some knowledge, what I call knowledge in the military. I got a write-in-the-rain book that’s got notes and stuff from my days in the military.
Me: Um, there’s demo cards that I have from my days in the military.
Agent: Demo cards?
Me: So, it’s a quick reference card, it’s got all our formulas and calculations and stuff like that, that we get in the military.
Agent: Okay, anything else in the bag?
Me: There’s a, it’s like an M-81, or whatever, fuse igniter thing that’s a used one that I saved from one of the last times I went to the demo range. There’s little bag that’s got these little parts… so if you wanted to use shock tube, it’s like a little adapter kit or something.
Me: Um, there’s these little clips in it for when you’re taking det cord… so you got a brandi line, or whatever, and you have your little charges off of that (line). You lay the det cord across that and use these little metal clips that clip it to it (the main line of the brandi line) to set them all off.
Me: And there is a… there’s what we call a clacker thing to set off electric blasting caps, and I think that’s everything.
Agent: And these are illegal to possess?
Me: Oh! And these… there’s crimpers, blasting cap crimpers.
Agent: Like pliers?
Me: Yeah, but there for demolition stuff., There’s also a role of electrical tape in there.
Agent: And these are all legal for someone in your position to own?
Me: I don’t… I don’t know. Its stuff that I had when I was in the military. I still have it.
Me: Along with all kinds of other stuff.
Agent: When did it end up in the field that you retrieved it from in November?
Me: I threw it out there after I had found out that my private… or somebody… the place that I was staying at, one of the ladies had somehow, I don’t even know how it happened, she thought she heard me say something about having bomb stuff to blow up a Monsanto Company building. And she said something about it XXXXX, and XXXXX came to me and he was freaking out, and was like “whatever you got, you need to get rid of, the Fusion Center called me down and interrogated me, and all this stuff, and I’ve got a wife and daughters, and I don’t need to be getting in trouble”. “Whatever you’ve got you need to get rid of it”. I was like, okay, so I went and grabbed a bag and I threw it in the bushes, because I was like – I don’t want to get in trouble for stuff and if they, after that interrogation, I don’t want to be raided and caught with that stuff and then…
Agent: Well, what do you think?
Me: Go to the brig for the rest of my life or whatever.
Agent: What do you think was in that bag was illegal? Sounds all pretty…
Me: It’s not that it was illegal, because I don’t know.
Me: And I didn’t want to be raided because the interrogation and… and bomb stuff is pretty serious deal for the government, FBI, whatever, when they find out someone’s got stuff… I didn’t want to get raided so I got rid of it, just in case I did – because I didn’t want to go to the brig for the rest of my life being caught with military stuff, the knowledge and the little clacker thing.
Agent: Okay. Did, uh… was this given to you in the military or did you kind of…?
Me: It was given to me throughout my years in the Marines and the National Guard.
Agent: Were you supposed to turn it in when you left the military?
Agent: It was yours to keep?
Me: I… there’s nothing… no regulations I know of, I was never told to turn it in, I was never asked about it, it was just as time went on, I just had it and…
Agent: Okay, what possessed you to retrieve it that evening in November?
Me: I wanted the stuff back, um… the write-in-the-rain notebook has notes and I’ve got a list of phone numbers and contacts, friends and family that I had in there.
Me: And I just kind of wanted it all back, just to have it…
Me: Because I remembered that I left it there and I’m possessive, I guess, of my things.
Agent: Yeah (he was always writing stuff down). Did Carrie know what you were getting out of the field that evening.
Agent: What did she think you were doing in the middle of nowhere?
Me: I told her that I needed to get something that I had thrown off in the bushes, and she is like — okay, so…
Agent: She never asked what it was?
Me: No. She didn’t want to know, so we detoured up and I did my thing and…
Agent: Okay, how long did it take to find?
Me: 25 minutes.
Agent: Okay, so you ah… took that back to Springdale, I guess?
Me: Yes, its sitting on a pile of my stuff.
Agent: It’s in your trailer?
Agent: So one more time, no blasting caps are det cord, we’re not going to find any there and you went through it? Okay. Have you ever manufactured an auto-sear for your rifle, its commonly known as a drop-in auto-sear?
Me: I made a prototype.
Agent: Out of what?
Me: I believe it is nylon plastic.
Agent: Okay, did you ever test it out in the rifle or any other rifle?
Agent: And did it allow that rifle to fire automatic, full automatic?
Me: Kind of.
Agent: What do you mean kind of?
Me: So I hand carved that thing out by eyeballing a picture of a Google image search, and I got the receiver and eyeballed it, kind of measured it and carved it out, and I believe that because I didn’t make it to any specs, that dimensionally it’s not correct.
Agent: Um huh (yes)
Me: So it doesn’t allow it to cycle properly. So what I’m pretty sure is happening is, I’ll get a burst and the hammer doesn’t catch on the sear, so rides back then it goes forward and the hammer rides forward with the bolt because it doesn’t catch the sear. So it doesn’t… It kind of… because the speed of the bolt, cycling, it kind of hits the firing pin but it doesn’t set the primer off. So I get a failure to fire, so I have to eject the round. I’ll get another two or three round burst, eject around…
Agent: So it does work?
Me: Kind of, it just…
Agent: 2 or 3 rounds, one trigger pull, and another 2 or 3 rounds, sounds like it works.
Me: Yeah, kind of.
Agent: But it would do 2 or 3 and you’ll have and have to manually eject the round?
Me, Um huh (yes).
Agent: Out of nylon?
Me: I think so.
Agent: Where did you get that?
Me: Uh, I went to a hardware store when I was in California, last summer and found these, ah, shims or whatever for deck building stuff.
Me: White plastic blocks.
Agent: Okay, ah, are you aware of any imminent attacks by anyone you’ve met? I know you’re active in the militia.
Me: I’m not really active in the militia.
Agent: Well, okay, do you belong to a militia? Let me start there.
Agent: No militia at all?
Me: I’m loosely associated with a lot of people in the militia units, I’m not in a militia unit because I feel that most people would reject me because I’m too radical.
Agent: What you mean by that?
Me: Because I… I believe, in standing against government tyranny. I was at the Bundy Ranch, the Sugar Pine Mine deal was another operation I was involved in, and some other stuff I was doing. Um, because I believe the Declaration of Independence is correct when it says that it is the right people, it is their duty, to throw off such forms of government and to alter and abolish destructive forms of government, that’s not a quote, but its along those lines.
Me: Because I believe in that, because I look at my government today and I see a correlation between the government of the British back in the days, the colonies. I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, domestic enemies being my government.
Agent: Um huh.
Me: That it’s my right, that it’s my duty to alter, abolish, and throw off those destructive forms of government.
Agent 2: How far would you go to stand up for that belief, would you kill?
Me: To defend myself and to defend others, yes, whatever it takes.
Agent 2: Well, let’s talk about the Bundy Ranch, specifically. If the Bureau of Land Management would have got those cattle, corralled the cattle…
Me: They had them corralled.
Agent 2: If they had taken the cattle, or seized the cattle, what would you have done?
Me: I would have tried to stop them.
Agent 2: Would that include using lethal force or deadly force against Bureau of Land Management personal?
Me: If they shoot me first, yeah.
Agent 2: Okay, I’m not asking if they shoot you first.
Me: I’m not going to shoot somebody first, that would be to commit murder.
Agent 2: Okay.
Me: I do not want to commit murder, so I’m in a defensive posture.
Agent 2: That’s what I’m getting at here is would you commit murder? Would you consider murder to stand up for your beliefs?
Me: No, because murder has an evil intent behind, a pre-meditated evil intent. I don’t want to kill anybody. I don’t want to, it’s also against my beliefs in Jesus and God to murder people. It goes against my religion, if you want to call it that. I believe it’s a relationship, it’s not a religion.
Agent 2: With that said, when you showed up at the Bundy Ranch, were you armed and prepared to kill?
Me: Yes, yes. I didn’t want to, but if that’s what is necessary to defend freedom and liberty and defend my fellow Americans, then that’s what’s necessary. That’s why it’s called a sacrifice.
Agent 2: Where do you think the line is for that, where does the line get crossed?
Agent: What if the BLM contracted Cowboys and like… started driving cattle away from you folks that were there with Mr. Bundy? I mean, what would have happened, do you think?
Me: It wasn’t a “what if”, they were!
Me: There were contracted Cowboys stealing the cows.
Agent: But they were all penned up the day of the standoff.
Me: Some of them were, but some of them had already been taken out of there… Yeah… Which violated the two court orders the BLM had. One court order was round up the cattle, and the other was to corral them and hold them. They had already shipped cattle out of state for auction.
Agent: So what if the cattle that were corralled, what if they started rounding those up, too, with all the skirmish line?
Me: We would have tried to run out there and tell them no, trying to stop them.
Agent: But not use deadly force, or open fire on them?
Me: Not just go out there and start shooting them, no.
Agent: Okay, I think I started to ask you about militia, are you aware of any plots or any threats to Americans?
Agent: Or interests of America?
Me: Except ISIS!
Agent: Okay, I’m talking more domestic. Is there any plots?
Me: I don’t know anybody that wants to hurt Americans.
Me: I don’t want to hurt my fellow Americans, because I’ve been standing up for them to try and protect them.
Agent: What about Americans who work as judges or prosecutors or FBI agents or police officers?
Me: Everybody doesn’t like most of those people. I don’t blame them. I don’t like a lot of judges and police and representatives, and congressman and even the President.
Me: They violate the Constitution.
Me: So… so you’re not aware of any plots to do harm to any of these public officials who you disagree with?
Agent: Okay, um, I’d like to show you some pictures, and I’d like to know if you know who they are.
Now, from this point on, I looked through like 32 pictures from the Bundy Ranch standoff on that Saturday. I’m sure some are wondering if I sold out. Definitely not. The only people I said I knew are friends with me on Facebook – public knowledge. At the end of that, Agent said, advised me that it is a felony to lie to a federal officer and asked me if there is anything that I’d like to add or change. I said no. As I was done being questioned, the recorder was turned off and I asked some questions. I asked if I could look through the massive file they had on me that was sitting on the table. They, of course, said no. The prosecutor would give me what I need in my discovery. I asked if when I was talking to Oliver that morning, if it was really him (because I know there’s computer software out there that can record someone’s voice and artificially reproducing it) and he said that they could not divulge that kind of information.
Then they let me go to the bathroom. Then they put cuffs back on me, we loaded up, and they took me to the King County Jail and the whole ride there, I talked about the Constitution and freedom and liberty. They treated me real nicely the whole time, even until this day. They seem to be intimidated and they know they’re being watched. I got some good laughs all the times I rode up to the courthouse with all the extra security measures because the other inmates riding with me freaked out when they saw all the Marshalls geared up. I felt like El Chappo. I’ve actually had quite a lot of fun during this whole experience, and I’m going to have fun going to trial, too.
Schuyler can be contacted by mail at:
PO Box 13900
Seattle, Washington 98198-1090